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Bushy-haired.....
Sat, 10/11/2008 - 18:40 — parakletos
As some of you know I'm not a fan of the use of bushy-haired, brown-skinned etc to describe characters in the books. One of my pet peeves. I'll add Auror Academy or Auror program to that as well.
Normalcy is another lol moment for me even though I've enjoyed the fic of the same name. Drug instead of dragged, spit instead of spat are also moments of lol and *rolls eyes*
Oh yeah and 'fit perfectly together' is another. One because its a lazy phrase, and two because it should be fitted.
These are not game breakers for me. I can still plod on with the fic but eventually I get worn down by the interns, multiple Weasleys/friends of Harry teaching at Hogwarts.
yeah I'm on fanfic.net looking for stuff but wouldn't you be if you worked in financial services?
PS I forgot this one. Gwenog Jones is Welsh and therefore wouldn't play for England at ANYTHING!
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parakletos wrote: As some
As some of you know I'm not a fan of the use of bushy-haired, brown-skinned etc to describe characters in the books. One of my pet peeves. I'll add Auror Academy or Auror program to that as well.
Out of curiosity, what would you prefer in place of "bushy-haired" and similar adjectival constructions? I know that using a character's name is simplest and clearest, but it makes me twitch to repeat the same word over and over again in the same passage, paragraph, or even the same sentence. Pronouns are handy, but they can lead to indefinite references. Especially when you're writing from the PoV of a male and a female at the same time.
Likewise, how do you feel about simpler, one-word nominatives? Things like "brunette" instead of "bushy-haired girl".
I hate the use of those as
I hate the use of those as well. Span instead of spun also annoys me greatly. (Drug is the other one that makes me cringe, cringe, cringe.)
I don't mind using other descriptives it's the overly used cliched ones that make me cringe. Bushy haired, emerald eyed and messy haired are all cringeworthy.
Things like 'the other/older/younger man' or 'his friend' are fine for me but picking out the physical characteristic I think is what annoys me. People are more than what you see - maybe that's it?
Sovran wrote: parakletos
As some of you know I'm not a fan of the use of bushy-haired, brown-skinned etc to describe characters in the books. One of my pet peeves. I'll add Auror Academy or Auror program to that as well.
Out of curiosity, what would you prefer in place of "bushy-haired" and similar adjectival constructions? I know that using a character's name is simplest and clearest, but it makes me twitch to repeat the same word over and over again in the same passage, paragraph, or even the same sentence. Pronouns are handy, but they can lead to indefinite references. Especially when you're writing from the PoV of a male and a female at the same time.
Likewise, how do you feel about simpler, one-word nominatives? Things like "brunette" instead of "bushy-haired girl".
I actually prefer the persons name or she or he. There are places where older man, younger sister etc work but think about it: busy-haired is a mouthful is it not? I'd also say that in dialogue the surrounding words shouldn't distract. Describe by all means... " He wasn't quite sure how to respond to what he'd said..." but putting in brown-skinned etc distracts (IMHO) from the dialogue.
I've never written from the pov of male and female at the same time, but perhaps there are other ways the voicings are recogniseable ? Perhaps H&G are getting used to the bond and thus can assert their own personality within it? Just thinking out loud here.
Kezzabear wrote: Things
Things like 'the other/older/younger man' or 'his friend' are fine for me but picking out the physical characteristic I think is what annoys me. People are more than what you see - maybe that's it?
Yeah, makes you wonder why Dean is identified by the colour of his skin rather than anything else doesn't it?
Character reference by physical trait
I made up some room mates for Ginny (do we actually know of any canon Gyrffindor females in her year?). Two girls have the same first name, Elizabeth, and are referred to by Gryffindor House as "The Kates." Individually they are known by their hair color. One is the brunette Kate while the other is the raven-haired Kate. At this point in the story that is the only difference between them, at least as far as Ginny is concerned.
Now I fear I may have written myself into a corner, unless I kill one. I have no reason to do so however, they are pure-blood (or is that pureblood?) witches in the 1992-1993 Hogwarts school year. And neither are from Wales.
Chatmandu wrote: Now I fear
Now I fear I may have written myself into a corner, unless I kill one. I have no reason to do so however, they are pure-blood (or is that pureblood?) witches in the 1992-1993 Hogwarts school year. And neither are from Wales.
I think of that as an exception. Since they do have the same name, they have to be differentiated somehow, and hair-colour is probably as simple as anything. You could make one taller than the other, but it would be just as noticeable to write about their heights as it is their hair. You could, perhaps, have one of them decide to go by Katie or Catherine or Kath or Cat instead of Kate. (Their names are Catherine, right, not Elizabeth?)
Why worry?
I made up some room mates for Ginny (do we actually know of any canon Gryffindor females in her year?).
Oddly, no. In fact, there is considerable evidence to suggest that there are two more females in Harry's year whose names we never discover. This for me is about as bizarre as the fact that (assuming I recall correctly) we never discover that Hermione's birthday falls in the first month of the school year (actually on "International Talk Like A Pirate Day"): wasn't it JKR's website which gave us that priceless snippet of information (not the Pirate bit, the other)?
Two girls have the same first name, Elizabeth, and are referred to by Gryffindor House as "The Kates." Individually they are known by their hair color. One is the brunette Kate while the other is the raven-haired Kate. At this point in the story that is the only difference between them, at least as far as Ginny is concerned. Now I fear I may have written myself into a corner, unless I kill one.
Why so drastic? There's nothing to say that they themselves are unhappy with the situation. After all, Gred and Forge have no worries about confusing everybody simply by existing.
One assumes that at some point Ginny will become better acquainted with them and thereby discover some other distinction between them?
I have no reason to do so however, they are pure-blood (or is that pureblood?) witches in the 1992-1993 Hogwarts school year. And neither are from Wales.
What does being Welsh have to do with it? Unless you're going to have Aberforth gunning for them for scaring his goats?
PS: does this mean we're going to be hearing more about the Lost Tower sometime soon? Pretty please?
That seems reasonable - to
That seems reasonable - to differentiate two characters with teh same name. I don't care if people are described in that way it's the incessant use of euphemisms for main characters and even minor ones. "Dean walked up to them and pulled Ginny's hair before running away. The dark skinned youth was laughing maniacally." Just. Say. He. That's what annoys me. Saying "Harry looked in the mirror. His hair was messier than ever" is fine but "The messy haired boy looked in the mirror." UGH. Just. Call. Him. Harry. "Hermione had bushy, brown hair" is fair enough. We do not need to read "His bushy haired friend". Just. Say. Hermione.
never mind me I'm being petulant today.
I am confused why Elizabeths are called Kate though ... or why Wales is significant ...
Kezzabear wrote: or why
or why Wales is significant ...
Of course Wales is significant. It gives someone the Scottish can feel Superior to
bransfolly
or why Wales is significant ...
Of course Wales is significant. It gives someone the Scottish can feel Superior to
Not from this households pov :p
Kezzabear wrote: That seems
That seems reasonable - to differentiate two characters with teh same name. I don't care if people are described in that way it's the incessant use of euphemisms for main characters and even minor ones. "Dean walked up to them and pulled Ginny's hair before running away. The dark skinned youth was laughing maniacally." Just. Say. He. That's what annoys me. Saying "Harry looked in the mirror. His hair was messier than ever" is fine but "The messy haired boy looked in the mirror." UGH. Just. Call. Him. Harry. "Hermione had bushy, brown hair" is fair enough. We do not need to read "His bushy haired friend". Just. Say. Hermione.
It bothers me as well, Although i usually just automatically substitute the name or a pronoun when i read it in stories, since it is so prevalent.
I am confused why Elizabeths are called Kate though ... or why Wales is significant ...
I really don't understand why Kate and Katie is an acceptable nickname for Elizabeth. I went to highschool with an Elizabeth Anne and she always went by Katie. One of those confusing things about the English language. Oh, and if anyone knows the answer, please tell me. I hate unsolved linguistic issues like this.
-Jonathan
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)
parakletos
or why Wales is significant ...
Of course Wales is significant. It gives someone the Scottish can feel Superior to
Not from this households pov :p
And let's not forget that America was named after a Welshman, it could have been called flossie! (yep, i've just been watching Blackadder)
Foot-in-mouth
I am confused why Elizabeths are called Kate though ... or why Wales is significant ...
Um... I only mentioned Wales because of Parakletos' comment about Gwenog Jones being from Wales. Nothing else to see, move along... these aren't the droids you're looking for...
I really don't understand why Kate and Katie is an acceptable nickname for Elizabeth.
Okay, major embarassment. Both of you raised the same question Sorvan did when he first read the beta draft. The two girls remain "The Kates" but their first names were changed from Elizabeth to Kathyrn [Rosyth] and Catherine [DeVaux]. Now the nick name "Kate" makes sense. I was looking at an old pre-beta draft when I wrote my previous screed. Shutting up now...
Chatmandu wrote: Okay,
Okay, major embarassment. Both of you raised the same question Sorvan did when he first read the beta draft. The two girls remain "The Kates" but their first names were changed from Elizabeth to Kathyrn [Rosyth] and Catherine [DeVaux]. Now the nick name "Kate" makes sense. I was looking at an old pre-beta draft when I wrote my previous screed. Shutting up now...
You misunderstand my statement. I don't mind the name Kate for Elizabeth, eventhough you have changed your character names, I just don't understand where the nickname comes from. As I said, I knew an Elizabeth who went by Katie at school.
When i found out her real name was Elizabeth, after I called her Catherine one day, she corrected me and I just asked, "Huh?"
She simply shrugged and said, "I've always gone by Katie."
It was odder still because we had no other Elizabeth and no Catherine's in my class. So, I don't have a problem using the nickname for an Elizabeth, I just really want to know if someone can explain who started calling an Elizabeth, Katie.
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)
Was it her middle name?
Was it her middle name?
No, her middle name was
No, her middle name was Anne. Maybe this is just one of those mysteries I will never solve.
- A good novel is an indivisible sum; every scene, sequence and passage of a good novel has to involve, contribute to and advance all three of its major attributes: theme, plot, characterization.
Ayn Rand - The Romantic Manifesto p. 74 (pb 93)
...as a Bludger
Shutting up now...
...and writing furiously?
The best I can figure is
The best I can figure is that "Katherine Elizabeth"/ "Catherine Elisabeth" are very often paired together as first and middle names, and the association just sort of... jumped at some point.
LOL My niece's name is
LOL My niece's name is Kathleen Elizabeth and she goes by Katie lol which is entirely irrelevant but Katie is short for Kathleen, not Elizabeth. I've never heard of Late or Katie being short for Elizabeth before ...
Anyhoo, moving along ... :P
Maybe, but...
The best I can figure is that "Katherine Elizabeth"/ "Catherine Elisabeth" are very often paired together as first and middle names, and the association just sort of... jumped at some point.
If that's the case, then how do you explain the number of females with the given name of Margaret who wind up being called Peg or Peggy. This is true of a friend of mine and when I asked her why, she didn't know.
Haven't a clue. :)
Haven't a clue. :)
Miri wrote: If that's the
If that's the case, then how do you explain the number of females with the given name of Margaret who wind up being called Peg or Peggy. This is true of a friend of mine and when I asked her why, she didn't know.
I can't say for sure, but I wonder if it isn't some sort of rhyming slang. Margaret might shorten to Meg, which rhymes simply with Peg, which is familiarized to Peggy. Likewise, Richard shortens to Rick, which rhymes with Dick. I've never understood the Richard/Dick connection, either, but maybe the two diminutions have something in common based on the rhyming. Is there some subtle linguistic preference for names that start with 'hard' consonants rather than soft ones?
Well Daisy is often a
Well Daisy is often a nickname for Margaret because in French marguerite is a daisy ...
I dunno how they got Peggy though ... the name has nearly 100 variants so ...
Dick was rhyming (Richard in Old German means 'dominant ruler' and got shortened to Rick and rhymed with Dick) so I suspect Peggy was as well.
A new variation
his sleeked hair friend
In case you didn't guess this is Draco.
Apart from anything else the
Apart from anything else the wording/grammar in that one is woeful.
Kezzabear wrote: Apart from
Apart from anything else the wording/grammar in that one is woeful.
You never know. Perhaps his friend - Draco or otherwise - is actually a creation of sleeked hair. Like a life-sized, enchanted doll created from someone's discarded hair to replace them after they've died. That might be an improvement for Draco, actually.