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Fights
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 23:23 — parakletos
Don't think I've every written a fight before.
They are hard, very hard. I'm not talking about HP fights, this is original fiction and it involves swords and shields. Anyone else have any success in this area? Any pointers you can give would be very useful.
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sword fights
I seem to recall reading that when Jordan Mechner was designing the original Prince of Persia game he spent a lot of time watching footage of actual sword fighting... I'm not sure if that would help in your case but it may be a place to start.
-SC
Sword of Truth series has
Sword of Truth series has legendary sword fight scenes, but personally as a Roleplayer on occasion I've done a fight or two involving swords so the written was pretty one sided. What I can suggest if you controlling both sides of the fight, determine first what injuries you plan on inflicting, make sure the character you want to live (if they live) can deal with more serious wounds long enough to finish the fight. In real life they're rarely glorious battles of trading blows, if you get the upper hand you take it and make it brutally fast, the longer the last the more both sides get sloppier in terms of fighting.
Terrain if anything is a huge deciding factor, armor tends keep you alive until you slip and fall and it weighs you down. Blood especially tends to accumulate in the worst possible locations along with all sorts of other annoying organs.
Another potential source of information Spike TV's Deadliest Warrior while a bit over the top shows you the type of injuries most weapons inflict and just how frail the human body can be. Youtube should have clips, Hulu possibly full episodes, not quite sure.
Hope that helps.
Read Jim Butcher
I have to respectfully disagree with Darkarma. While I did really enjoy the Sword Of Truth series, I didn't find Goodkind's fight scenes to be too terribly well-written. At least not as far as giving you any description whatsoever of what is actually happening. Don't get me wrong, I loved the books, I just wasn't impressed with the fight scenes. Jim Butcher, on the other hand, I would recommend checking out. His Codex Alera series has some of the best action I've ever read. The first book not quite so much, but after that, the fighting is intense, and well-written. I haven't read any of the Dresdin Files books by him yet, but I've been told the action is just as captivating. Of course, Harry Dresdin is a wizard, so probably not so much sword fighting.
It is a sort of process
It is a little difficult to answer your question without some more information. As you see above from your responses, there are as many opinions on what makes a good fight scene as there are bad fight scenes. I don't have a personal preference on how to write a fight scene. It either works within the narrative or it doesn't.
So, what is the importance of this fight scene? Is it the climax of the confrontation between protagonist and antagonist, or is it an obstacle on the path to the main confrontation.
What is the purpose? Is it to have the protagonist lose and realize he needs more training? Is it to show of the skills of the mentor? Is it to show the power of the enemy? Is it, like the famous sword fight at the top of the Cliffs of Insanity in Princess Bride, to develop character and just look badass?
How many words can you spend on it? Are you tight on space or are you filling space? In general I find the fights that are filling space are already bad fights and should be chucked. A fight written within the confines of say 500-1000 words is usually about the right length for most fight scenes.
I think with some of those questions answered we can talk about the next steps of choreographing the fight.
-Joseph
- “Perhaps, in those days, there were a few among men, a few of clear sight and clean soul, who refused to surrender that word ["I"]. What agony must have been theirs before that which they saw coming and could not stop! Perhaps they cried out in protest
Realism vs Fantasy
About the only useful comment I might make is that you need to decide how much realism you want, contrasted to how much fantasy. While individual factors will vary according to exact setting, which you haven't specified, one rule is unavoidable. Two relatively healthy young males with weapons in hand will kill each other very quickly. One-on-one real duels, with any weapon, end very fast. It's also common for both parties to kill each other via mortal wounds, even if one "survives" the moment of the duel.
The "duels" you see in movies, or read in books, or see in the fake Ultimate Fighting, or (insert whatever floats your boat here) are all fake in some (significant) manner.
If you want the artistry and romance of a drawn out fight, then by all means draw it out. If you want the gritty realism of actual fights where each side is trying to kill or at least seriously injure the other party, it won't last more than a few techniques.
The corollary here is that if you do or if you don't know how to truly fight, you should still physically walk through your scenes (with false weapons if weapons are in the scene) with other people (friends, spouse, kids, ...). The actual mechanics of doing what your character is experiencing are invaluable for the details you'll completely get wrong otherwise. There are distinct limits on how the human body behaves. If you want realism, you need to do this to get those aspects right. If you want the fantasy/romance of duels, then you want to know the likely sounds or visuals that will come from the actions.
Beyond those simple things, you'd need to articulate more about the setting and characters to get more useful feedback. What exact weapons? You fight different based on the type of the sword. Is anyone wearing armor, and if so, what type? What is the skill level of each participant? Is it a formal duel with judges for sport, a formal duel to the death with observers to affirm lack of cheating by third parties, or is it a back-alley fist fight that got escalated?
Ah, right Codex Alera, still
Ah, right Codex Alera, still getting used to the fact that I read two series by the same author and was impressed. Yes Codex Alera was definitely brilliant.
And actually there is some sword fighting which involves the... spoilers. Anyways Dresden Files is my heart with Modern Fantasy. But yes there are swords, just not nearly as many as is Codex Alera.
But yes, I rescind my vote to Sword of Truth for Codex Alera, though Codex involves more army battle tactics, SoT was more personal.
Wheel of Time also had some of that and most of the sword maneuvers were actually named.
And Moshpit once again rings quite right. And from the sounds of it knows a bit more than I do.
moshpit wrote: The
The corollary here is that if you do or if you don't know how to truly fight, you should still physically walk through your scenes (with false weapons if weapons are in the scene) with other people (friends, spouse, kids, ...). The actual mechanics of doing what your character is experiencing are invaluable for the details you'll completely get wrong otherwise. There are distinct limits on how the human body behaves. If you want realism, you need to do this to get those aspects right. If you want the fantasy/romance of duels, then you want to know the likely sounds or visuals that will come from the actions.
I've already prevailed upon my son to help in the fights. He has accumulated a handy collection of (harmless) swords and shields with which we could walk through the fights. Hopefully by the end of the week I'll have something to commit to paper.
I would think…
…the most important consideration is the skill and knowledge available to your narrative voice.
In other words, how much would your narrator actually know about what is happening, and would they be able to keep up with the intricate details, or would the whole thing simply go by in a blur? Whichever holds, describing this accurately would be essential. Otherwise you risk breaking the immersive illusion: if your narrator is a novice, then suddenly being able to accurately report the speeding blur of battle with the skills of an expert watching an action replay will seriously bend credibility; the reverse applies unless obviously the opponent is of correspondingly even greater skill.
Remember the medium, be
Remember the medium, be descriptive as possible, if they're wielding swords and carrying shields, they probably have armor on as well. Two (or however many) warriors, trained to kill, swinging sharp pieces of steel at each other with the intent to kill the other.
Think of how bad it hurts to stub a toe, then imagine what one might feel if a broadsword crunched down through their clavicle, having a meter of steel actually penetrate you. Of course, you can choose to be as descriptive as you like, but to me, a real fight is a terrible thing, and should be handled accordingly. The wounds that swords can make are horrible.
Lastly, I think David Eddings has written some fantastic fight scenes, especially concerning Sir Sparhawk. There is a rhythm to combat, classic attack and defensive moves, that can lead up to who is the most practiced swordsman/woman, and ultimately, who wins. Another thing few seem to consider, is how heavy a real sword is, and how fantastically in shape one must be, to be able to last even a few minutes dancing around, swinging an 8lb sword, while wearing some form of protection, and trying to keep your head attached to your body. Lotsa grunts, clangs, crunches, sparks, curses, screams and collisions. Reminds me of the beginning of the movie Excalibur. Good stuff. Hope that helped a little.
Oh, btw, don't forget its your world you are writing in, that makes you boss :D